Ep. 5: Intersectionality and Internships with Ahmira & Taylor

In this episode of What IFF?  we highlight two Women's and Gender Studies majors, Ahmira Lucas and Taylor McElwain, as they prepare to finish earning their degrees at the College of Charleston. Both Ahmira and Taylor have spent the last several months doing important social justice work in their respective internships, and they fill us in on the significance of their efforts. Join us as we reflect on our experiences as Women's and Gender Studies majors and interns.

Music by Ketsa

Chapters

• 1:48 Lutheran Services Carolinas
• 4:12 EMPOWERR Program
• 8:38 Social Justice Work in Undergrad
• 12:25 Intersectionalities in Internships
• 16:53 Introduction to WGS Course

Transcript

- INTRODUCTION -

[Musical intro]

MARISSA  00:11
Welcome to another episode of What IFF? from the Women's and Gender Studies program at the College of Charleston. This is a podcast where we take a look at the social justice work done in our communities by lifting up members of our WGS family who help us imagine intersectional feminist futures. In this episode of What IFF? I am joined by two fellow Women's and Gender Studies majors, Ahmira Lucas and Taylor McElwain. Like myself, Ahmira and Taylor will be graduating this year from the College of Charleston and moving onward to apply their interdisciplinary education to the areas of our society where they are needed most. Ahmira is a Women's and Gender Studies major from Winnsboro, South Carolina. As a part of her degree, Ahmira has been interning with the EMPOWERR program at MUSC, which aims at providing comprehensive and preventative HIV, STI, and pregnancy programs to marginalized teens in the Charleston area. After she graduates, she plans to apply her experience by offering primary rape prevention strategies in her hometown community. Taylor has a double major in Women's and Gender Studies and International Studies, as well as a double minor in Russian and African studies. This semester, she's been working with Lutheran Services Carolinas as a refugee resettlement intern and, after graduating, hopes to continue working in advocacy with an emphasis on gender equity. In today's episode, the three of us talk about what it's like to have an internship as a Women's and Gender Studies major. The ways social justice is a key component in the work expected of us and what the future might hold for WGS majors like ourselves. As a trigger warning, today's episode mentions brief themes of sexual assault. Ahmira and Taylor, thank you so much for sitting down with me today! Let's jump right in. Taylor, I know you just came from your internship. So tell us how that's been and what kind of work you've been doing.

- LUTHERAN SERVICES CAROLINAS -

TAYLOR  01:48
It's going really good. So, my internship is with Lutheran Services Carolinas, and I'm a refugee resettlement intern. That kind of encompasses a lot more things than I was expecting, but it's really nice because I get to do a variety of work. Today specifically, I was uploading some client self-sufficiency plans - just digitizing them and sending them on to my boss but in the past, I've gotten to coordinate job interviews, drive clients to English classes/extended cultural orientations, I've gotten to set up a cultural orientation presentation which was really interesting, and I had a lot of fun with that. And so it's really just kind of a broad scope of work, and I think it's gifting me a little bit of experience in everything, which I really appreciate.

MARISSA  02:33
Yeah, that's an awesome opportunity. So where do most of these refugees come from?

TAYLOR  02:37
Most of the refugees that I've personally worked with are Ukrainian or from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, but we also had a pretty large influx of Afghan clients due to the situation with the Taliban. There's a little bit of everyone, I would say. For me, particularly as a Russian minor, I've been working mostly with Ukrainian refugees.

MARISSA  02:59
So how did you find this internship opportunity, and was this an area of social justice that you had an interest in before going to CofC?

TAYLOR  03:08
This is the kind of work that I came into college hoping I'd be able to get to do. And to be able to do it while still in undergrad has been really exciting. I remember I got off the first Zoom meeting I had and was like, "Oh my gosh! I'm living the dream!" I got an email from Dr. De Welde over the summer saying that LSC was looking for a preferred communities intern, and they wanted to ideally select from the WGS majors. I read that email and was like, 'That would be really perfect.' And so, I emailed her back and set up an interview with one of the employment managers at LSC and ended up getting the internship. I hadn't planned on doing the internship because I had already done internships in the past, but this was such a wonderful opportunity that I didn't want to pass it up, and I wanted to get my foot in the door with such a great organization.

MARISSA  03:56
Well, that's awesome! Congratulations on that. Ahmira, I'd love to hear a little bit about the work you're doing with MUSC. Can you tell us a bit about the program EMPOWERR and your role with them?

-EMPOWERR PROGRAM -

AHMIRA  04:12
Yes, I interned at EMPOWERR through MUSC, which is a risk reduction program for teens in the Charleston area. They are mostly focused on minority groups that are more at risk of high-risk behavior, whether that be sexual or doing drugs or different things like that. They also offer counseling for substance abuse and coupling that also with different PTSD things that students can be dealing with because oftentimes, the withdrawals from drugs can have the same outcome as it would if you had PTSD. So, it's been interesting work, definitely. Unlike Taylor's experience, I feel like mine is, rather than being all-encompassing, it seems to be leaving out a lot. I think that's also due to some organizational issues. As far as preparing me for a career, it's teaching me that with the work I want to do, there's a lot of work that needs to be done in order to do it. For me, my focus is on primary rape prevention, thinking about how that affects my community personally and a lot of the ways that we as a society socialize people, which really does aid the rape culture in America.

MARISSA  05:26
Can you define primary rape prevention for us? What does that encompass?

AHMIRA  04:31
To me, primary rape prevention means combating the social socialization of people. And secondary is when we get tasers, we don't go out at night, and put our keys in between our fingers and things like that. Primary is dealing with the root, and the root is the socialization and the grooming, and these conversations that aren't being had. Even in my community, these uncles are doing things to their nieces and still get to sit at the Thanksgiving table. Also, primary rape prevention deals with having open conversations, not just teaching abstinence. There are a lot of ways that the media puts sex on display, and whether or not you're reading to have those conversations with your children - they are intaking that media. And if you're not having conversations to correct what they are seeing or to talk further and give them information about it, a lot of times... Unfortunately, when I was in school, we took ignorance and shared it with each other because nobody else was talking to us about it. So we led with ignorance in a lot of situations.

MARISSA  06:36
Right, so what you're suggesting here is a proactive approach to rape culture and to an issue that, by the time we're addressing it, is usually too late.

AHMIRA  06:48
Yes, we had a great conversation about consent in sexual situations

MARISSA  06:50
Right! Even as a child, I was a nanny for a little while and taught this five-year-old boy how to interact with his three-year-old brother.  I know you think he's going to think it's going to be funny when you dump water on his head, but that's not a decision for you to make.  Let's ask him first, and if he says no,  then that's your answer. It doesn't matter if you think he'll like it. And that's a conversation I've had repeatedly with five-year-olds, and I think that's the bigger picture that's being missed a lot of the time. That's why I'm so glad your program focuses on preventative strategies because that's where a sustainable impact will be made. So, knowing what you know about the work that goes into social justice, do you think the work being done at EMPOWERR is productive work?

AHMIRA  07:25
I think it is good work. I can definitely see it. We are facilitating courses at Stall High School right now, which I didn't know they have a school daycare at that school because there are so many teen parents. So they really do need that conversation to be had. I realize that when we started out, we didn't have the biggest class sizes. Now we're getting in more permission slips and having bigger classes, so everyone is learning together. When you don't exclude information, it makes it applicable to everybody. Honestly, when I was in school, we learned sex education separately, so it was great to see everyone together in this room. Whether or not you're making jokes or taking it in, or doing it for the fruit snacks, you're still taking something in. For me, it's a proud moment to see that, but my education has radicalized me to understand there's always more education that can be done.  With the program being federally funded, there are some things that are not going to be done. It's definitely made me have a more realistic view of the world and a more realistic view that if this is what I want to be done, I'm probably going to have to go at it by myself. That's just something I feel would definitely impact my community.

- SOCIAL JUSTICE WORK IN UNDERGRAD -

MARISSA  08:38
I think that's what it's about. There's something unique about completing an internship or capstone that counts towards a Women's and Gender Studies degree that, unlike other internships, the priorities on these ones are not on career advancement (though it may still be a part of it). They're more about the experience of learning the roles we have in society to make a change and participate in social justice work, and I think it's really awesome we're given the opportunity to do that while also attending school. What do yall think? Do you think it's different as a Women's and Gender Studies major?

TAYLOR  09:15
I can definitely speak to the social justice component of an internship. I did an internship that was coordinated through the International Studies department, and it was also an amazing internship and amazing experience, but the way that different departments approach the internships... there's definitely a difference. With this one, there's more of a focus from the Women's and Gender Studies program on 'how is the work that we're doing, the knowledge we're accruing, transferrable into the real world other than just being about checking off an experiential learning credit or something like that. I really do feel there's more of an emphasis on the practical aspect of it beyond just something to put on a resume or another thing to pad a CV. Things like that. I think that's really important because it's easy, especially as an intern, because we've all got classes and other jobs, and it's easy to have the internship fall by the wayside. But I think the approach the WGS program takes with making connections between what you're doing in your internship and social justice/social advancement - making that really clear - I think that's something that's really motivating to keep going and really seeing the importance of the work. Even if it's not necessarily to the extent that you'd like it done. It's still helping me see the importance of the present work.

AHMIRA  10:39
As far as my internship, it has taught me much more about the humanitarian value. I think at one point, I had a different view of certain issues that we addressed in the internship because it's not just education. It's also dealing with risk behavior that involves drugs. Personally, I was in a school that had that type of community, and we had students that were getting shot, having __ graduations, getting in car accidents, and things like that that were taking away young lives. We had some students that couldn't get through a day without a joint. Some could not focus without that in their system, and this internship has taught me empathy for that because it's not necessarily a 'want,' but it's the developed need for it now. I was talking to my supervisor, and she was saying that nobody is really paying for this type of (rehabilitative) work to get done. So, it's the reality of - if you want to be a change-maker - they're not paying for you to do that. This is purely your satisfaction with doing something for the world, and it's not, as you said, something to just add to your resume. It's a meaningful opportunity.

TAYLOR  11:50
With your internship being federally funded, I'd be really interested to know - can you talk about abortion and services like that?

AHMIRA  11:57
No, that is a no. An absolute no. We also don't go into depth about LGBTQ, and these are the things I feel we can work on because we're talking about pregnancy but not abortion. And in this country, it's essential at this point. I won't have a radical conversation about it or throw my internship under the bus because I am grateful for the opportunity that I have, but I do see the room where more work can be done.

- INTERSECTIONALITIES IN INTERNSHIPS -

MARISSA  12:25
Absolutely. I feel like you've been trained to be able to see what else must be done. The three of us know well that intersectionality plays a crucial role in all three of the issues we're talking about. So, can either of you speak to how your understanding of intersectionality helped you during your internship? Or where you see intersectionality coming into play?

TAYLOR  12:47
I think the most obvious answer that comes into my mind immediately is the work that is done with the preferred communities program. Preferred communities are basically refugees who are coming with high needs (maybe due to a disability, or past trauma, or some kind of experience), so they just have kind of a different set of needs, and we cater to that specifically rather than a 'one size fits all' program. So that is something that comes to mind with meeting people where they are with the unique experience they've had rather than saying, 'Here's our policy to do A, B, and C' because if that doesn't work for you, then it doesn't work for you. Something I admire about LSC is that they're taking that intersectional approach, even if that language is not necessarily used.

MARISSA  13:35
Right, that's something that's really important. Of course, we're about to graduate either this December or early spring, and I don't want to just be like, 'Oh, what's next for you?' But I am interested in knowing what you were hoping a WGS major would help add to a future career if that were your path.

AHMIRA  14:03
I think personally, my major and my education are being used every day. It's the way that I view the world now and approach certain situations. And I think that, as far as post-grad, my education is really riding on helping my community. Because there's not much that's happening there. We have so many opportunities that are being wasted. Thinking and reflecting on my own experiences, I don't want other students to go through those things or have flashbacks of something they did that's embarrassing. When you realize you didn't have to do that, you learn how to choose yourself. It's really hard because you can't go back and do it again. So, for me, Fairfield would really benefit from that sort of thing, and primary rape prevention also means having conversations about grooming because the high school and middle school buildings are close to each other.  You see high schoolers come over and talk to the middle schoolers, and that can be a form of grooming. But the person who's getting that attention is saying, "Oh, he just thinks that I'm cute." They think of it as positive attention because they don't know the real intention. So, I think that for me, post-grad would be making change happen. Even if it's just talking with my little cousins talking about these kinds of things. I've actually had a lot of conversations with the teachers that I had when I was in school there, and now they've been promoted to assistant principal or principal, and they're in positions where I can talk to you, and you can do something about this. I have actually had conversations with them, and they are excited about that change, so I'm excited to see what can come from that as well.

MARISSA  15:38
I love that you're going to take the education that you've claimed, as Adrienne Rich says, the hard work that you've put in, and you're going to put that right back into your own community. I think that's what it's about, Ahmira. What about you, Taylor? What do you think?

TAYLOR  15:48
I think you both said it really wonderfully. Ahmira, what you said about our education is not just being, 'Oh, this was just my major in college,' but something that is really - I hate to sound cliche and say life-changing - but it really does impact the way I view the world and gives us new viewpoints. I think that has probably been my biggest takeaway from a WGS major. Certainly, I've loved my classes and my professors, but the worldview and perspectives gained from the WGS major have been really valuable. I hate to sound like a typical senior, but I don't know exactly what I'm going to be doing post-grad. Ahmira, like you were saying, I'm hoping to affect change where I can and when I can. I'd love to continue working in refugee resettlement, but I'm also interested in being a victim advocate for victims of sexual violence. So I think just seeing what the needs of my community are wherever I end up and then serving that using my skills and knowledge to make a difference however I can. Whatever is the most effective way.

- INTRODUCTION TO WGS COURSE -

MARISSA  16:53
Well, the good news is that no matter what we do throughout our lives, our degrees are going to be great supplements to it. The starting salary for a person with a B.A. in Women's and Gender Studies is $56K. And we can work in law, politics, social work, education, healthcare... These are transferrable skills that are undoubtedly in high demand right now. So with all that being said, what piece of advice would you have for an incoming freshman or undecided student?

TAYLOR  17:24
I think I would say take the Intro to Women's and Gender Studies course. It gives a really good overview of a lot of topics covered in the field, and obviously, it's a very important subject because this is such a large field with so many issues to address. But I think just getting that taste can be helpful. We were kind of touching on this when you said you had to ease your parent's minds about being a WGS major. I feel like there's such a misconception about the job prospects, but as we just heard, you have a very promising future. There are so many doors to open, so I guess I would say there are so many topics that will be gifted to you. And if there's a special topics course that interests you, take that as well. Even if it doesn't count for anything in the degree plan that you're already declared in, just having that elective knowledge. Even if it doesn't lead to becoming a WGS major, just carrying that with you and gaining new perspectives is an important step to take.

AHMIRA  18:25
Beautifully said. I definitely agree. Intro to Women's and Gender Studies gives you so much. It was during the time that we were debating Critical Race Theory that I was actually taking that course and learning about the corridor of shame and racial disparities in our society - even here in Charleston. It's an incredible thing to uproot, and honestly, I think it's just the most rewarding major to have. It changes the way I look at movies, how I look at people; it's just completely... I don't know the word.

MARISSA  19:01
Well, for me, it's been transformative. I'm so thankful for freshman year Marissa deciding on the course load that she did because I think it put me on that path that lead to directly where I am now that made me who I am. I think if I could give a piece of advice to an incoming freshman, it would be to not be afraid to be wrong and to not be afraid to learn something that contradicts something they think they already know or believe. I'm so proud of all of us for the journey that it's been. I'm really grateful to have met you guys and, really, all of my fellow WGS majors. This is the end of our show, though, so before we officially end, I love to do the Q&A portion to learn a little bit more about each other. So let's get into it.

- Speed-round Q&A -

MARISSA  19:51
Do you all have any irrational fears?

TAYLOR  19:53
Snakes. I don't know if that's irrational, actually. [laughter]

AHMIRA  19:58
Irrational fear, I keep having nightmares of losing my teeth, and I think that is from loving dessert. My mom has always told me, 'You aren't going to have any teeth.' The dream feels so real, and I be waking up like [gasp]  Okay, they're still there.

MARISSA  20:17
That's a good one; that's a good irrational fear. Uhm, coffee or tea?

AHMIRA  20:20
Coffee, in most situations. [laughs]

TAYLOR  20:24
I'm going to be that person and say iced coffee. I do coffee if I want an iced beverage and tea if I want a hot beverage. Both have their merits; I can't pick.

MARISSA  20:50
I agree. I'm usually a coffee person, but I actually brought matcha in here. Okay, the last thing I want to know is, what is something about you that surprises people? [laughs]

AHMIRA  20:50
I think there may be a few things. People are surprised that I'm twenty.

MARISSA  20:56
You are twenty. Yeah, you're about to graduate! Queen. That is definitely something that surprises people. And that's just an ode to your intelligence and your hard work in STEM.

TAYLOR  21:12
That's a really good one. Uhm, I think people are surprised when I tell them my areas of studies because they seem like a lot of unrelated things that I just jumped into together, especially when I say I'm also a double minor in Russian and African studies, but at least to me, I really see the connections. Honestly, even if there weren't connections, it would still be wonderful to get to learn about all of these things and get to have that knowledge. Even if I don't necessarily use it in my career, at least I have it, and at least I've learned it. It all goes back to that perspective thing.

AHMIRA  21:50
I think that's really cool that you have such diverse studies.

MARISSA  21:55
And even if people don't perceive a connection there, that's why you're doing this - to make connections there.

TAYLOR  21:59
Exactly, that's so true.

MARISSA  22:02
People are surprised to find out that I teach a self-defense class through the art of Jujutsu because I'm like five-one.

TAYLOR  22:07
But that makes it all the better!

MARISSA  22:10
Yeah, exactly; I love to surprise people. I'm tiny but mighty. [laughs]

AHMIRA  21:17
I don't think people would guess your height, either, just based on your stature, how you talk, and how confident you are. I would have never guessed your height.

MARISSA  22:26
Listeners, how tall do you think I am? [laughs]

TAYLOR  22:27
Place your bets now!

MARISSA  22:32
Based on my voice, how tall do you think I am? That's good. I have actually heard that before. Uhm, okay, I think that that is going to be it for our show. Thank you guys so much for making the time out of your busy schedules to be here. I know what it's like to be a senior about to graduate and do an internship.

TAYLOR  22:56
Thank you for having us. This was a really wonderful conversation. The opportunity to be on a podcast is great, but just getting to talk with you guys was really, really wonderful.

MARISSA  23:03
Yeah, I'm grateful to have connected as well.

AHMIRA  23:10
I cannot imagine what my life would be like and who I would be without this major.

MARISSA  23:15
Absolutely. Same here. But I am excited to see all you do and am excited to see the fruits of all of our labors.

TAYLOR  22:24
Yes, definitely. I'll be rooting for you all. Even if from afar.

[Musical interlude]

MARISSA  23:36
Thank you for tuning into another episode of What IFF?  You can find more of us on most favorite podcast platforms by visiting the college's official news site, The College Today. Don't forget to keep up with us on WGS Connect and our Instagram at CofC WGS. Be on the lookout for our next episode as we sit down with history professor and researcher Dr. Cara Delay to discuss the recent overturn of Roe v. Wade, the history of reproduction, and the urgency of the reproductive justice movement. Until next time, I'm your host, Marissa. Stay feminist, yall.

[Musical outro]